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Dev Preview / vr
After 04-Aug-21 07:00 AM
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garry 04-Aug-21 07:56 AM
binding some VR stuff now
rainbowblob 10
mainly aiming to get the head at the right location right now
then we can pass all the body/controller positions over the user command next
we're probably going to have to collaborate to come up with useful/premade systems
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:08 AM
And here I was considering un-fucking my climbing gamemode from the API updates I missed haha, cool!
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garry 04-Aug-21 08:14 AM
got to re-work out how to use the quest with steam now
this wifi link stuff is junk right
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:14 AM
Afaik Air link is decent from what I've heard
But wired is more reliable for sure
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Pred 04-Aug-21 08:16 AM
Only tried with Virtual Desktop, but with that you just either launch the game through the Virtual Desktop menu or launch Steam Vr
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:17 AM
And yeah I guess if you go the Virtual Desktop route that only does wireless but is a lot more configurable to make it reliable for your connection
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garry 04-Aug-21 08:18 AM
can I make the quest stop knowing whether it's on my face
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:18 AM
I think tape over the sensor in the top center between lenses works temporarily
But over time it sorta "gets used to" that being the default state and goes into sleep mode anyway, unsure how long that takes though
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Ryhon 04-Aug-21 08:21 AM
Air link is garbage, alvr is better but has some latency and virtual desktop is the best
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:21 AM
I'm a huge fan of how the Vive Focus 3's desktop streaming works because it just connects to Steam using an app on your PC and if your headset loses connection it doesn't shut everything down, just sorta pauses your headset view
Avatar garry
can I make the quest stop knowing whether it's on my face
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Ryhon 04-Aug-21 08:21 AM
I think if you put something on the top piece it will think it's on
Like tape or whatever
idk how it works
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:22 AM
lmk when there's binding setups required, I can set up a lot of different shit
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Ryhon 04-Aug-21 08:25 AM
The default strap keeps it on if it's laying on the top piece of the foam cover
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can I make the quest stop knowing whether it's on my face
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litevex 04-Aug-21 08:26 AM
you can actually
theres an oculus developer tool
that lets you disable the accelometer or something
and it keeps the quest on
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:26 AM
uh oh
i want to test my vr
in s&box
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litevex 04-Aug-21 08:26 AM
this thing
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:26 AM
btw. wifi connection thing is good
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ogniK 04-Aug-21 08:27 AM
that pic looks like the side of an ass
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btw. wifi connection thing is good
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:27 AM
It's not universally good
Highly depends on your wifi setup
agree 1
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:27 AM
yeah
but if you have good router it's good (edited)
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Pred 04-Aug-21 08:28 AM
With wifi6 and it set up to being the only device on the channel it's wonderful
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:28 AM
^^ same as link
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:29 AM
I mean it's still a compressed image but I guess you get that with link too
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:29 AM
yeah
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:29 AM
Kinda sucks how noticable that is if you swap to a natively running VR headset afterwards, but certainly passable if it's all you know
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:30 AM
I mean, image looks very good on airlink, it's worse on VD
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:30 AM
VD lets you tweak the hell out of it, so I'm sure you can get it looking better there with a lot of trial and error
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:31 AM
yeah
VD is using quest 2 hardware
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:31 AM
But Airlink will be the more straight forward approach that will "just work" for most
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:31 AM
to gain some fps
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:31 AM
I'm still hoping VD gets Vive Focus 3 support soon
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:32 AM
what's this?
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:32 AM
HTC's own streaming solution is capping the bitrate like crazy, which makes even running it at 2048x2048 per eye still look a little soft and compressed
Vive Focus 3 is HTC's standalone headset, but it's "for business" so they charge you out the ass for it
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litevex 04-Aug-21 08:32 AM
wifi connection thing is good but it needs some setup
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:32 AM
Much nicer overall headset than the Quest 2 though
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litevex 04-Aug-21 08:33 AM
you can have a sorta ok experience if your pc has a wifi card OR you have a wifi usb stick thing (like 10$) and use a wifi hotspot but it's sorta messy, has slight stutter and you have to connect several times until vd actually lets you in because of some weird bug. also absolutely unplayable with airlink for some reason (edited)
or you can buy a 50$ recommended router, hook it up to your pc, set the right vd settings and immediately have high resolution gameplay wirelessly with barely any latency that's if you use virtual desktop, not airlink. airlink suck (edited)
Avatar ShadowBrain
HTC's own streaming solution is capping the bitrate like crazy, which makes even running it at 2048x2048 per eye still look a little soft and compressed
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:34 AM
that would be cool
anyway VD is using better streaming solution than airlink
I just have some issues with quality of image on VD
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litevex 04-Aug-21 08:35 AM
vd is worth it right now even just for ssw (edited)
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:35 AM
yeah
Avatar garry
can I make the quest stop knowing whether it's on my face
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rako 04-Aug-21 08:53 AM
there's a native setting inside of your Quest/Quest software on PC
no need for tapes or dev tools
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:21 AM
we don't even need premade systems just some basic bindings that we can build off of would be an amazing start
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:21 AM
Premade systems would serve as examples of how to implement shit- it's not the priority but it's very nice to have
Afaik Garry is only working on the binding stuff right now, which will get pushed first, and premade systems come after
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:22 AM
true, i just meant like, don't let those premade systems hold you back from releasing the first version of bindings
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:22 AM
Yeah so that's already the plan
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:22 AM
epic
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:23 AM
He said the premade systems will likely be a collaborative effort, can't collaborate without pushing the base features first :p
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM
VR.WorldScale or Vr.WorldScale
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM
Hmmmmmm VR is technically an acronym right
So full caps?
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DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM
Full caps pls
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Carson 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM
I would think VR.WorldScale makes more sense
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM
Vr looks weird
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:28 AM
Yeah, it does, though "weird" is relative to your normal
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DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 09:28 AM
I guess the g_p helps there
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:28 AM
I think the thing in c# is to drop to lowercase with acronyms (edited)
but
I think Vr would look weird in isolation
if it was like Game.Class.Vr.Blah it would be different
but 99% of the time it's gonna be Vr.Blah
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:29 AM
I mean you've got multiple people giving their view, do with it as you want I suppose :p
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DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 09:29 AM
Yeah I think it's because it's on it's own at ths start
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Carson 04-Aug-21 09:29 AM
VirtualReality.WorldScale troll
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:29 AM
let me ask you something
should we have WorldScale or just Scale which is just worldscale = 1 / Scale;
because I think it might be more intuitive to think of it as scaling the player than the world
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:30 AM
Can we... have both?
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM
they're the same thing though
just inverse
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Carson 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM
Hm, I do agree that it's more intuitive, but I'm not sure what the VR standard is
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM
Hmm yeah I think SteamVR's new worldscale slider is inverse
Though it confuses the fuck out of me
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM
Lower numbers = bigger world feels off to me
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM
I'm changing it
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:32 AM
Also Valve's plugin for Unity is just Using Valve.VR; and uses capitalized VR everywhere iirc
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:43 AM
Will vr be a whole different input api or could we potentially use the same code for vr and flat
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:44 AM
it'll have to be different for the most part
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:44 AM
I feel like for VR you might want more descriptive names than just feature names button-name-wise but not sure
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:44 AM
I do want games where you can use the mouse and keyboard instead of controllers tho
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:45 AM
So like seated VR?
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:45 AM
depends if you have a standing desk
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:45 AM
Aka caveman Rift CV1 launch VR
Would also be able to use a gamepad
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:46 AM
Like input.righthandaim Ray that gets set based on the right hand in vr but is just the same as the default player aim in flat
Or something idk
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MuffinTastic 04-Aug-21 09:46 AM
ever played quake 2 vr in kb/m mode? it's actually cool
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:47 AM
Am personally not a fan of seated VR without tracked hands but I'd agree that it should be an option, would also be used for racing games and such
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walllable 04-Aug-21 09:48 AM
Euro Truck Sim VR in s&box...
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:48 AM
Those racing games folks are working on should be pretty easy to add VR support to
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:49 AM
how does vr networking work/how will it work
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:49 AM
Though it'd be fun to add a hand tracking input mode where you grip the wheel itself too
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:49 AM
im worried about motion sickness with occasional rubberbanding due to packet loss and stuff (edited)
Avatar garry
got to re-work out how to use the quest with steam now
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no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 09:50 AM
Use virtualdesktop
Oculus Link is trash
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:50 AM
I reckon S&Box would never be rated as a comfortable VR experience
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:50 AM
alright first build coming
this is all the api so far
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no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM
LETSFUCKINGGOOOOOOOOO
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM
holy crap
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM
Nice!
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no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM
@SadlyItsBradley
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM
I update the anchor autoamtically in PostCameraSetup
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM
todays a good day to have a day off from work
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM
Oh so it'll "just work" right now
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SadlyItsBradley 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM
🀩
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM
yeah it'll be whereever the pawn is
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM
time to attach my vr camera to a football
and be kicked around
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM
So this first version won't even allow devs not to support VR right now?
hypertroll 1
Not that I mind
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:53 AM
mouse and keyboard doesn't work right now in VR mode for some reason, so I'm gonna look into that now
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no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 09:53 AM
Could probably do some basic xbox controller mapping
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:53 AM
does it use steamvr input
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garry 04-Aug-21 09:54 AM
I dunno
there's a bunch of really simple looking things to bind
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:54 AM
It will eventually I reckon, it's SteamVR's input binding system
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:54 AM
steamvrs input binding is amazing
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:54 AM
The "legacy" binding system is pretty shit, doesn't support all controller features
Like you'd probably lose access to skeletal hand tracking if you didn't use the steamVR input system
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:55 AM
temporarily expose the entire vr library trole
for fun :D
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:56 AM
Wtf does that even mean
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:56 AM
oh yeah i guess its all in unmanaged sections of code atm huh
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:56 AM
We're not going to be setting up bindings per app, the SteamVR input system doesn't even support bindings within an existing app
So we'll get an abstracted amount of access to SteamVR's input system
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:57 AM
well yeah of course
im excited
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:00 AM
Updated- seems to just launch in a black screen on desktop
I remember the main menu not showing up in VR yet but I figured it'd still show on desktop
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walllable 04-Aug-21 10:01 AM
does it still work right when not using VR?
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:01 AM
can you paste any errors in logs/
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:01 AM
Oh even launching the game with SteamVR on but in flat mode gives me a black screen now
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:02 AM
oh btw i'm sure its already known but the physgun halo is very broken in vr, only shows up in one eye (edited)
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:02 AM
Give me a sec, I will also test
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:02 AM
6.92 KB
Menu didn't compile?
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:03 AM
I'd validate contents
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:03 AM
Validating
I launched the game right before this update
So idk what this'd do
Hmm 832 byte update?
Yeah looks like 1 file failed lemme retry
Yup runs now
Weird
Hmm I'm still in the center of the map looks like
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:07 AM
it's working for me
just looking around
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:08 AM
To be fair I am using a custom gamemode so idk if there's something I gotta do
Noticed the render resolution is directly tied to the window resolution btw
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:08 AM
yeah
what we should test?
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:09 AM
Yeah no, in sandbox too, I'm just at the center of the map
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:09 AM
yeah
something is wrong
i guess
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:10 AM
also get a lot of this but it's possibly not relevant to the anchor not working
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:10 AM
which postcamerasetup is the anchor being set in?
Game.PostCameraSetup? (edited)
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:11 AM
Nice, if I manually set it in simulate it seems to work
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:13 AM
can you see terrys beautiful body
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:13 AM
join me daniel
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:14 AM
@garry you might need the option to swap SteamVR into seated/standing mode to change the actual local space of the anchor, though I guess we can all compensate for that once we get head position exposed
And no, I just see his shadow because locally terry's body gets turned off in my gamemode
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:15 AM
set camera.viewer to null on your camera
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:15 AM
No I already fixed it by changing my player code
The near clip plane for VR needs to be tiny by default if possible
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walllable 04-Aug-21 10:15 AM
I made an issue about that a couple days ago actually
Describe the bug The clipping plane is set too far from the player's field of view in VR, causing players to be able to see inside of objects and past walls when it's a couple inche...
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:16 AM
It's currently like 20cm or something
I think I always set it to whatever Unity considers the minimum
Which is like 1cm
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:17 AM
it is pretty huge right now
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:17 AM
cant you set the znear?
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:17 AM
yeah
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:18 AM
yeah in camera.build or something
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM
you lagged my vr
@Daniel
fu
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM
Hmm that's annoying I can't figure out how to change it without just making a custom camera (edited)
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM
:D
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM
sbox crashed
vr version
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM
you should be able to set CameraSetup.zNear
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:20 AM
override PostCameraSetup in base gamemode is easiest to override
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:21 AM
Why isn't this just a thing though https://puu.sh/I1rgl/c9b63bc967.png
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:22 AM
cameras are more like CameraControllers than cameras
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:23 AM
I'm just a Unity guy I have no clue what makes more sense in proper C# world
But that sounds like overcomplicating it
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:23 AM
what you're describing makes perfect sense
I think the thing I was trying to avoid when I made it like this was having multiple things changing the camera
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:24 AM
I noticed ZNear is a thing inside the FirstPersonCamera class, so I'd be able to make a custom Camera class and add it there
But it could also just be exposed?
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:24 AM
doing this in your game is probably easiest
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:25 AM
Ah and that's in inches right because source 2
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:25 AM
I guess yeah
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:25 AM
Cool thanks, should work
Ha
I can see the cubemap in his eyes
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:27 AM
man was not meant to get this close to terry
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:27 AM
haha
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DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 10:28 AM
lul that's amazing
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:29 AM
Gonna be tricky once we get head position data though
Do we change the pawn to just follow the head relative to the center of your room? And then also move the center of your room with your pawn if you do user input?
Shit's gonna explode in complexity setup-wise
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:30 AM
in alyx they have the player entity and then another entity on top of that which is VR model iirc
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Pred 04-Aug-21 10:30 AM
seeing him running around is pretty cool. VR + Non-vr gamemodes are gonna be awesome
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:30 AM
Hmm and the VR entity is offset and decides standing height and collisions I guess
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bakscratch 04-Aug-21 10:31 AM
Black & White vibes
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Ryhon 04-Aug-21 10:32 AM
what the dog doin
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:33 AM
isn't standing height gonna just be real world height x world scale
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:34 AM
Well sort of, I just kinda meant Z position I guess which could go up/down if you physically move over objects with your head
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garry 04-Aug-21 10:35 AM
in other VR games do they artificially change that distance from the floor to the head, without scaling the rest of the world
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM
We might be thinking of different things here, my only experience is from my own games where the player is a physics object held up by a raycast that keeps the physical floor level with the ingame floor
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM
does resolution works good?
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM
By just moving the anchor
Resolution doesn't work right as it uses the window's render res instead of the SteamVR-set render scale
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM
ah
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM
But that's a more technical problem to figure out later
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Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:37 AM
yeah
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:39 AM
In Climbey for example, player is a rotation locked rigidbody, there's colliders attached to the head and body that push the player out of walls if you try walking through them and it uses your head position to determine if you're standing on a surface or not with a raycast down from the neck, that applies delta forces to keep the floor level with whatever surface you're standing on
Other than that it's just physics acting on shit, which I'm sure is way different from how HLA does it
But I've struggled figuring out how to do shit like player positioning in VR based on head offset
In other games like the Receiver 1 VR port I did
It works really terribly in that, since I'm forcing the PlayerController into the right X/Y position based on the head's local position, which causes glitchy physics sometimes with walking into walls
That shit was not made to be position-set
Which I'm sure is part of the reason HLA just fades to orange when you shove your face into things
The push-back effect can be sickening in Climbey but people generally don't really even attempt it, so the colliders just act to stop them when launched against a surface for the most part
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:48 AM
I wanna play some alyx now
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no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 10:52 AM
Lets gooo
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:55 AM
I do wonder if a hybrid system is possible that has both the pawn acting on the VR rig as well as the VR rig affecting the pawn, with both being able to act simultaneously
Would need a total of both movement vectors and add them up I guess
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garry 04-Aug-21 12:47 PM
blargh
tried to get hand tracking working but couldn't get there]
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walllable 04-Aug-21 12:54 PM
Aw damn
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 01:01 PM
dont stop garry
i know you can do it
Avatar garry
tried to get hand tracking working but couldn't get there]
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:03 PM
Need SteamVR input bindings set up, uses a "pose" type which has position, rotation and velocity data iirc
No idea why they call it a pose but that's what they call it in Unity and the bindings screen
Is also how you get headset position/rotation data
Headset is just the device at index 0 in the device list
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garry 04-Aug-21 01:16 PM
Yeah inset up bindings but it was retuning a struct with devixenotfound set
Avatar garry
in other VR games do they artificially change that distance from the floor to the head, without scaling the rest of the world
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 01:30 PM
some do, some dont
in games where height matters (ie for a player body) they'll usually just ask the player for their height or measure it based on the height difference from the universe origin
there's truly no good way of getting a player's height without asking them directly, and even then that isn't always accurate when the playspace drifts around over time
so half the time you just have to wing it lol
for the people that have big ass expensive setups with multiple trackers it's a lot easier to figure out though, considering they'll usually have hip and foot trackers
though, considering that's a tiny amount of the overall vr population, i'd just rely on the difference between the head and the universe origin
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:39 PM
works pretty good
I livestreamed making a basic vr mode
Avatar Gvarados
Click to see attachment πŸ–ΌοΈ
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:47 PM
This is what resident evil 7 is on PSVR basically, just need to attach the hands directly to the camera
Avatar Gvarados
Click to see attachment πŸ–ΌοΈ
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Ambient 04-Aug-21 01:50 PM
nice
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:51 PM
You probably reset your standing position to get it to look like that while at your computer I'm guessing
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:51 PM
yes
Avatar Pred
seeing him running around is pretty cool. VR + Non-vr gamemodes are gonna be awesome
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Ambient 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM
oooo sweet! reminds me of that one roblox vr thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d0xoiluJHk this video is kinda cringe but its the best example i could get
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM
we need a way to get the player's offset from their standing position
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM
Yeah, that's gonna be their head position
Avatar Ambient
oooo sweet! reminds me of that one roblox vr thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d0xoiluJHk this video is kinda cringe but its the best example i could get
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Pred 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM
Yeah I saw that video a while ago, It had the same feel! Gonna be cool to see what people are gonna make
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM
HMD position is their local offset from center
Gotta get the X/Y axis and offset the center with it
Or offset the pawn with the X/Y
There's a lot of weird shit that needs figuring out
Avatar Pred
Yeah I saw that video a while ago, It had the same feel! Gonna be cool to see what people are gonna make
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Ambient 04-Aug-21 01:53 PM
Yeah, i feel like thats the best way to combine vr and non vr players in one game tbh adds a lot of interaction
agree 1
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:54 PM
But grabbing head pose should be just as hard/easy as getting hand poses
So we'll probably get those at the same time
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:55 PM
can't forget about vive trackers
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:56 PM
Yeah
Technically should be a matter of getting roles' poses
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:57 PM
yes
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:58 PM
But I have zero C++ knowledge so I have no idea how to help Garry figure that shit out
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:01 PM
is there a way to debug this actions stuff
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:01 PM
I think in the binding UI?
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:01 PM
for right hand I'm doing "/actions/default/in/handposeright"
and input source handle "/user/hand/right"
does this look all right
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:04 PM
As far as I can see, yes
I crossreferenced it with my game's bindings, looks correct
Though I have localization inside my actions file but I doubt that makes a difference
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:05 PM
i always have unity generate default bindings for me
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM
Well yeah but he can't exactly do that
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM
there has to be a tool for it somewhere
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM
..Yeah. SteamVR bindings menu.
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM
oh
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM
I doubt he manually typed all this shit up
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM
fair
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:07 PM
I copied it from alyx haha I didn't know steamvr had a bindings menu
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:07 PM
Should be under controller settings
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:08 PM
oh I might be using the wrong controllers
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:08 PM
Hmm how so?
You're just using touch controllers right
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:09 PM
Yeah, same ones
Legacy bindings = old input system
So the input system doesn't know you have custom actions set up yet (edited)
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:09 PM
oh what's the new input systems
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:10 PM
The old binding system basically just had a limited controller button set mapped, the new one is the actions based binding system you've been trying to get set up
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:10 PM
is this some steamworks thing that I have to do on the backend
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:10 PM
But it seems like the steamVR input system doesn't know there's an actions.json file yet
I feel like you need to reference it somewhere
Shouldn't require backend setup
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:11 PM
i know this is a unity tutorial
but it does help explain a bit on how the action system works
and how to debug it
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM
The unity version is just it automatically knowing there's an actions.json file, because it knows it needs to use one
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM
In C++ you might need to manually reference it so the game knows wtf it's doing
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM
what a bunch of fuck
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM
And yeah, I've seen that, my game doesn't need it for some reason
idk if it's actually required to get it to work, but maybe it makes it work in the fancy C++ way?
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:13 PM
What's that screenshot from?
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:13 PM
The Steamworks backend
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:13 PM
Ah
Yeah that makes sense
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:14 PM
so many fucking hoops to jump through
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:14 PM
Yeahh honestly I was super torn on this being a good system for a long while
But you're literally locked out of a bunch of fancy input features if you don't use it
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:15 PM
I definitely prefer setting up bindings with the action system as opposed to the old legacy system on the user side at least
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:15 PM
i love it personally, its a nice abstraction, and you get to outsource the effort of making bindings to your community
with their little workshop system
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:15 PM
That's part of why I ended up swayed to it being a nice system
It's just way more flexible, after you wrap your head around it and jump through the hoops to get it working
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:16 PM
Yeah that checks out
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM
I don't think we want to do anything that special
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM
you get it for no extra effort I believe (edited)
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garry 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM
controller positions, finger positions, buttons
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM
just by setting up the system the way its meant to be set up
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM
Finger positions are part of the skeletal system, which requires using the input system
Legacy input system is controller positions, limited button set that doesn't cover all controller buttons
Since the legacy system is designed to only support Vive wands, basically
In the end you should be good just making an actions json file and then setting the actual controller bindings using the binding interface from that @garry
Makes sure you can't typo paths to certain buttons
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:24 PM
tbh this vr is useful for non-vr stuff too
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:24 PM
How so?
Actually, does UI stuff show up in VR or no?
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:25 PM
no
no ui in vr
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:25 PM
Need that Diegetic 3D UI
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:25 PM
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:25 PM
A-la starcitizen
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM
I could make a non-vr game
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM
Damn, was kinda wondering if the game just stuck the UI to your face or something
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM
and have the camera positioned by a vr tracked object
not that anyone would ever play that.......
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM
That sounds arbitrary and useless yes
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Haggets 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM
that sounds jarring as hell
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM
I feel like VR could be pretty useful for SFM actually
Mocap stuff for one, but it'd be sweet if you could go into VR and have a sort of virtual camera rig set up on your controller
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:27 PM
yes
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:27 PM
So if you want a natural sorta shaky cam/steadycam shot you don't need to manually animate it
You can just get in VR and point it at whatever needs to be pointed at
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Electrisoma 04-Aug-21 02:28 PM
with the original sfm you need to own a kinect and a $300 program to get mocap data (edited)
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:28 PM
Now that I think about it, the camera thing can probably be made as an addon
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:31 PM
with the worldspace panels vr UI is not a far cry
away
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM
Is there worldspace panels?
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM
Added recently I believe
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Ryhon 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM
Yes
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM
I dunno if you can actually interact with em yet though
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DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM
You can't I don't think
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:34 PM
It's something at least
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:34 PM
That's just another step to add really
First get that bindings shit figured out
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Is there worldspace panels?
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Pred 04-Aug-21 02:34 PM
Just tried adding a worldspace panel. It spawns 2 instances. 1 is rendered on the left eye and the other on the right lol. One had the rotation I added, the other didn't
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:36 PM
Classic stereo incompatibility
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:36 PM
oh noooo
OH NOOOO
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:36 PM
?
It's just a bug
Stop freaking out
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:36 PM
:P
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Pred 04-Aug-21 02:37 PM
Ye, early days x :
For now, just play with your right eye closed and it works fine :)
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:38 PM
Guess we can start using the vr versions of shaders?
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:39 PM
I assume there's not much point/difference since the regular shaders render in VR fine I think (edited)
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:41 PM
i sorta wish that steamvr still exposed all the inputs in the legacy way
steamvr input is good tho but yeah i really wish it wasn't so...
layered.
also the binding ui is actually so shitty still despite valve completely redesigning steamvr's ui to actually be nice
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:43 PM
Yeah and it fucks up randomly, doesn't convey saving/uploading decently
Lots wrong
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:43 PM
awkwardly navigate a big picture ui that hardly responds instead of just hitting a button on the controller then selecting what you want it to do
i want valve to just rip out big picture entirely there is not a single moment in my waking life i ever want to be put into a big picture ui
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:45 PM
Hey they reworked big picture for the new SteamOS
I'm sure that'll make its way to PC and then VR
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:46 PM
yeah but are they actually ripping out the old one or are they just selectively replacing the parts that are relevant to the deck
it's like how they keep slowly replacing vgui but vgui is still all over the place despite that
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:47 PM
Iirc the new big picture stuff is totally new stuff that's in the vein of the new friends list/steam library
Not just built off the old big picture mode
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:48 PM
i wanna see a modern steam sorta in the same vein as egs or the bnet launcher, i don't give a shit if it's an electron disaster that takes up 1gb of ram, i just want it to be functional (edited)
say what you will about blizzard, the battlenet launcher is actually pretty decent visually
the new steamvr ui actually feels a lot like they made that effort too, they just need to make the extra effort to push past the last few ugly ass parts of big picture that are left behind
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:49 PM
What is the difference between the normal and vr versions of shaders anyway
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:49 PM
The only reason I use big picture is to launch overlay apps like ovr toolkit and fpsvr
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:50 PM
is there a diff, i thought it was just that "vr simple" and "vr complex" are named that way cause it's based on hl alyx
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walllable 04-Aug-21 02:50 PM
Those don't appear in the regular library screen for whatever reason
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:57 PM
@garry did that manifest path shit do anything?
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:00 PM
nothing
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:01 PM
i can't remember but i think steamvr has some function that you might need to call to set the path for actions.json
but i think the docs say it should pick up on the steamworks setting automatically if it's being used
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:01 PM
I'm getting EVRInputError::VRInputError_NoData when calling GetPoseActionData
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:03 PM
OpenVR SDK. Contribute to ValveSoftware/openvr development by creating an account on GitHub.
says you shouldn't need to do that tho hmm
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:04 PM
it's being set for sure
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:05 PM
Is it? Did you check the controller bindings overlay to see if it's changed to your custom action set? (edited)
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:05 PM
i wonder if it is defaulting to the legacy bindings since it was launched once already before you had it all setup
tho that should at least return something i imagine
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:06 PM
Nah it should be overridable even if it was legacy once (edited)
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:07 PM
That's progress
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:07 PM
maybe GetPoseActionData is bullshit
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:07 PM
It might be
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:08 PM
or I should be calling it on a skeleton instead of a pose
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:08 PM
there's a diff function for skeletal input
i think
it's been a while since i fucked around with steamvr
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:09 PM
I'm talking completely out of my ass here, it does UE4's SteamVR SDK use C++? Maybe it has some similar stuff you could reference as opposed to going in blind or referencing Unity's or something (edited)
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:10 PM
I mean the Unity plugin also has to interface with the C++ functions
So either one is useful to check out I suppose
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:10 PM
That's true
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:11 PM
I also have the code to alyx
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:12 PM
Oh right, forgot about that lol
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:12 PM
they're not really using GetPoseActionData in it
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:12 PM
you don't have to call UpdateActionState before hand do you?
openvr has so many stupid ways to poll input and they're all confusing and half undocumented
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:13 PM
I was assuming that all that was being done since the GMD is moving
HMD
oh I see a bunch of action set shit though
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:14 PM
it looks like vrmod for gmod uses WaitForPoses then UpdateActionState
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:14 PM
maybe that's not set up
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:14 PM
but yeah if the hmd is tracked i'm not sure
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:16 PM
this is probably it, the action set buyllshit
🙏 1
got a new error πŸ₯³
toot 2
xpogs 1
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:21 PM
I remember "activating" action sets being a thing
They removed that from the unity plugin iirc because it was confusing
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:22 PM
probably a silly ask but will you be able to poll pose for more than just hmd + controllers? things like vive trackers.
this doesn't have to be something exposed to usercmds
just being able to grab data clientside would be enough
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:23 PM
Matter of checking different roles' poses I think
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:23 PM
ideally you'll get full access clientside
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:23 PM
bangin
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:23 PM
but yeah the common stuff will be usercmd
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:24 PM
I know that you can have different bindings for different contexts, like having different binds for being in-game and being in a menu or something
Vivecraft does that pretty nicely
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:25 PM
That's what action sets do
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:25 PM
honestly considering the complexity of steamvr input i think i'd rather it just be like, PrimaryButton, SecondaryButton, Trigger, Grip, etc.
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:25 PM
Vivecraft just has it's binding shit pretty nicely implemented in general imo
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:25 PM
i don't want to faf around with that stuff in s&box
the only problem i could forsee from something like that is you have to special case the vive wands
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:26 PM
It's action sets the create divisions in the binding ui
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:26 PM
I figured the way he was gonna go about it was in a similar way to regular controllers
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:26 PM
if we have full access clientside it hardly matters
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:27 PM
I suppose so
It would be pretty nice to have a way to rebind different gamemodes' bindings in-game, since setting up bindings in SteamVR would affect all gamemodes, which can be annoying if you just want to change the bindings for one particular game and are fine with the bindings in another game
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:28 PM
hmm
the main menu should have a giant terry floating above you in vr like that horrifying concept art that was posted a few devblogs ago
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:30 PM
Lol that'd be great
He gets angry when you put your laser/finger/whatever over the exit button
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:33 PM
how suitable is the ik stuff for doing fully body presence anyways
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:34 PM
woop woop
turns out I was doing it the hard way
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM
Sweet
What was the easy way?
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Pred 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM
Sweet! gj
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM
they already wrapped it all
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM
god i am actually so ready to sink my teeth into this
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM
Oh lol
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:38 PM
alright thats cool, matrixes for hmd both eyes and middle, all tracked object matrices and velocities, all tracked object inputs
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:39 PM
even skeletal?
i guess it'd have to have that cause alyx uses it
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:39 PM
skeletal is in there, but not accessible via this easymode method
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:40 PM
ah
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garry 04-Aug-21 03:40 PM
I thought I saw they were encoding the hand pose to a single int in the usrcmd for alyx but that can't be right
my brain was thinking whether it was possible somehow
like if there's int_max possible finger positions and maybe they did it that way
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SadlyItsBradley 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM
I'm so exited for this. Thank you for working on it! I know VR is definitely not the most huge thing to work on when it comes to scale of return for player base. But man, much appreciated
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM
Afaik the hand pose is a full skeleton system right
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM
yep
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM
Though curl data is how it used to be done and that can still be gotten from the API
I fought for that actually, they were going to only make it skeleton based
Since curls was Knuckles EV1.3 shit
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM
that's pretty useful since it cuts the work down a ton
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM
Which I broke like 20 sets of
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM
instead of IKing a hand you just have an open and closed pose and apply the transforms individually
not nearly as convincing but Good Enoughℒ️
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM
Yup, that's what I did in Climbey
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM
remember finger splays
and how they never happened
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM
Splays exist in the API
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
they do yeah
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
yeah, but not on the controllers sadly
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
There's just no controller that supports them yet
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
whatever
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
Index controllers can't track fingers that far from the controller
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
until someone makes a good consumer vr glove it probably won't happen
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
It's like only 2-3cm off the controller
Where splay data is still highly unreliable
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
I think I've heard they're trying to do that for the index 2's controllers
Avatar UselessGhost
until someone makes a good consumer vr glove it probably won't happen
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
yeah, unfortunately
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
index 2? thinkies
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM
Don't remember where I heard it from though
Some kinda patent stuff
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:48 PM
i think all of that stuff has just been conjecture based on patents valve has been filing-- yeah
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:48 PM
Though I did get some guy's leap motion driver to support splays I believe
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:48 PM
i got a leap motion i could do that thinkies
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:48 PM
But eventually that driver stopped working and the guy hasn't updated his driver
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM
aw
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM
I even got him to set the tracking level to 5
or 4?
whatever is the highest one
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Willox 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM
does steamvr work with the quest hand tracking? (edited)
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM
Nope
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Willox 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM
aw
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM
honestly as much as i'd love for full skeletal support having open and closed finger poses is good enough and avoids the feeling of "wait why did i fucking buy these controllers"
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM
Yeah finger curls work fine enough
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM
getting kicked back to the quest 2 for a month was sort of an eye opener of how little it fucking matters
CAN'T CRUSH CANS IN HL ALYX THO
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:50 PM
i cannot wait to see how cursed terry's meaty fingers will be to use
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:50 PM
can crushing in alyx should be a fucking game on it's own
it's so goddamn satisfying
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:50 PM
You can crush cans in alyx without index controllers
It's just not granular
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:50 PM
@garry Happen to have a quick code snippet to set IK targets on terry's hands? maybe the head too
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM
yeah but it doesn't feel good
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM
Yeah
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM
sometimes I get scared that I'll fucking crush through my controllers with how primally satisfying it is to just obliterate cans and bottles in HLA
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Willox 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM
i never tried doing that...
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM
it should be really easy to put together an anim graph that has targets for hands (and feet if you want)
making it look convincing is another story
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM
Can crush snowballs in Climbey with it too btw
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM
Personally not having to hold the controllers at all times (and the joystick) (and also the finger tracking is still cool to me) made the knuckles worth it to me
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
yeah like compared to the vive wands it's still no question, even if they're filled with useless features
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
And they're cheaper despite having like double the amount of sensors inside
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
just delete the trackpad man
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
The finger tracking is actually quite nice in VRchat
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Willox 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
index stuff is cool but i find oculus controllers easier to actually play games with
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
I like having the trackpad, bit only as an extra button
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
the finger tracking is goofy as hell and I still think it's a gimmick but I'm all for it
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
i rest my finger on the trackpad all the time and in the ui it constantly scrolls shit, i hate that
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM
If they replaced the trackpad with a regular button I wouldn't miss it
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
i think having the trackpad as an input is fine
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
Replace the trackpad with a larger joystick that doesn't break ever
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
like, as a button
but yeah, as a trackpad, fucking nope
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
I rarely use it as an actual trackpad
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
maybe it's just because I have tiny baby hands but the trackpad works well for me
i just wish it was clicky
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
My hands are like, normal-ish size but my fingers are long
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Willox 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
and what's the deal with the index controller's terrible joystick clicking
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
They were really proud of the EV2 prototype's trackpad being squishy
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Willox 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
it just doesn't work right
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
I need to get that booster adapter thing sometime
Avatar Willox
index stuff is cool but i find oculus controllers easier to actually play games with
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM
i thought that myself but i think the index controllers have way more natural throwing motions, and they feel better in gun games
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
I don't like how tiny the oculus controllers feel
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
that said, i think the oculus controllers are very very comfy
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
The handles aren't long enough
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
Throwing 100% feels much better on index
And Oculus controllers are for baby hands, they're tiny
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
the index controllers are also...... worse????? for beat saber imo.
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
beat saber lol
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
i say that with lots of question marks cause like, tracking is better
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
Beat saber should never define how good/bad something is
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
but the index controllers are too heavy
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM
i get what you mean though
the index controllers aren't like, handles anymore like the vive wands
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM
I'm fine with the weight of the index controller, personally
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM
i mean the index controllers if you loosen the grip are fine
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM
I never really notice it
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BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM
they're meant to be roughly hand fitting
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM
i use em like swords and just grip the entire base of it
but then the alignment feels a bit wonky and getting that tuned in so it stops feeling like that is weird
the oculus controllers feel like way less of a fuss to get working in a way that feels right in beat saber, and i wasn't like getting consistently worse scores with it vs my index like how my cv1 was way worse
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM
Ive heard the main problem with BS on index was how the sabers were rotated
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM
yeah
they feel weird
idk why
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM
Or tilted or whatever
Can't you fix that in the settings menu?
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM
playing with alignment helps but i still feel like they're off in a weird, immeasurable way
yeah
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM
Ah
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Willox 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM
i remember some games had problems where they treated up on the joystick as sort of... not up because of the angles of the controllers
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM
but only in like, vague sweeping steps of like, hitting a button to rotate it a bit, instead of just having it be like
"grip the saber in front of you" then calibrating off that
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walllable 04-Aug-21 03:58 PM
Granted I play beat saber really casually (I usually only play on hard on the stock levels) but I found it generally fine
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:58 PM
it is a wonder my index hmd has had absolutely zero issues because the amount of sweat i have put into that thing playing e+ beat saber customs is insane
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i remember some games had problems where they treated up on the joystick as sort of... not up because of the angles of the controllers
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:59 PM
i think either this was fixed or valve put a setting in the options menu that let you fix it. i don't really notice it nor have i ever really noticed it
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Willox 04-Aug-21 04:00 PM
i'm talking when it was brand new
so games didn't really have the support
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:00 PM
yeah i've had my index since launch
idk. maybe i'm a freak? i got small hands so some things people complain about i never notice
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Willox 04-Aug-21 04:00 PM
i'm pretty sure recroom did it
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:01 PM
i sorta want an index 2 now that it's sort of a thing patents are hinting at
quest 2 spoiled me, wireless vr is fun
wireless fbt vrchat is sort of insane, the freedom you get from not being locked down to shit
i hope that's a reality and also isn't a fucking pcie card like the vive wireless kit was since i got an mitx build
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Willox 04-Aug-21 04:02 PM
i thought i'd always go for the vr with the best refresh rate/resolution but the quest 2 really did show me how it's important to have as few annoyances during setup as possible
calibrating a space? no thanks i'll just draw a square on the floor
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:02 PM
Hmm so there's IK chains set up on terry's arms and legs, I wonder if you can just programmatically set them since the animation graph already applies the IK simulation (edited)
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:02 PM
should be able to somewhere
though aren't those more for holdtypes
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:03 PM
No the hold type stuff is applied in the anim graph too but I reckon you can also set the IK target without changing the anim graph
Just not sure if that's exposed to C# :p
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:04 PM
i haven't even touched the anim graph yet so i have no idea but i'd have to assume you're able to somehow
otherwise how do you feed data into it
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:04 PM
Yeah you can probably customize the animgraph since you can set parameters
Just not sure if you can change IK targets without adding new parameters
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM
oh if it's not a param then no probably not
we ask max very nicely to expose those :)
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walllable 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM
I wish vmix's parameters were exposed to C#
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM
They included the uncompiled citizen
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM
i imagine terry will become vr ready
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walllable 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM
But that's a totally different topic
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM
once vr support is more finalized
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM
So technically we can just change it
Btw how do people hide parts of a model?
Trying to hide the head so my camera isn't creepily showing the back of the eyes and mouth
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:07 PM
not sure how relevant it is to s&box but the usual approach in source 1 was either bodygroups or scaling the bone
you could also do a clip plane maybe idk
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:07 PM
iirc there's bodygroups set up since people hide shit for certain outfits
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:08 PM
clip plane would not work actually cause if you raised your hands too high they'd disappear
hmm
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:08 PM
Yeah so there's a head bodygroup
Just needa figure out the API for it
Oh it's just SetBodyGroup I think
Yup
πŸ‘Œ
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:24 PM
Found where it sets the arm IK in the anim graph I think but no idea how to make the target a parameter πŸ€”
...I might have figured it out
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walllable 04-Aug-21 04:39 PM
πŸ‘
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:42 PM
Weirdly it seems to "work" but also not because setting the parameter vector of the ik target doesn't change the hands in the game despite the value definitely changing
But if I set the vector in the anim graph it does change the IK target so it definitely uses the parameter, just doesn't check it past the initial update?
So either it's glitching out or I'm missing some setting that makes it re-check the IK target somewhere
I got it sort of working, just gotta figure out hand rotation setting really
Which is tricky because it needs to override the animations πŸ€”
The fact that the IK stuff doesn't have a rotation override is pretty annoying
Yeah, can't seem to override rotation on an animation without probably adding a bunch of janky nodes to the animgraph :/
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:00 PM
oh
if you can't set rotation that sort of sucks
but wait how does the worldmodel ik work then, terry's arm twists a bit
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:01 PM
The only bone related code you can do is "SetBoneTransform" which seems to be completely ignored by animated objects (edited)
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:01 PM
or is that just because there's no animation being applied
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:02 PM
I figured the IK would also angle the hands but it doesn't for some reason
OVerriding the IK target with a custom parameter is as far as I've got it working
The slow body twist/rotation also makes the IK not so good at keeping up unless you're walking forward
But I'll yeet that later when the hand tracked stuff is in
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:04 PM
to be entirely fair you'd probably not want to be using the stock anim graph on a vr char
might be a nonissue
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:04 PM
Ehhh maybe
It'd kinda suck if VR support involved a separate Terry with different animgraph assigned
Though the current animgraph is already massive and slightly laggy on my system so perhaps it is more responsible to not extend it to include VR support
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:05 PM
i imagine at some point terry's default graph will get optimized for vr
or just a different one entirely
but honestly most of the stuff in the anim graph is irrelevant for vr, since usually playing an animation on the player's body will feel weird
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:06 PM
Crouching and walking would work
But would need less headbob probably
Either way I've got a basic thing working for when hands are in, just gotta figure out rotation really
After I added the two vector parameters for it
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:08 PM
i'm glad at the very least the ik solver seems serviceable for this
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:08 PM
So not super rocket sciency, but I do need to get that rotation figured out
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:08 PM
you could just do something like vrchat's ik system where it has lots of checks to turn on and off canned anims like walking
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM
IK vr arms have always felt odd to me
and i definitely dont want terrys arms
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM
Perhaps I can figure out how to mask off the hand animations entirely
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Daniel 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM
i dont wanna be terry waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM
oh i mean terry's will feel off, he's a stubby little thumb dude but
i always was impressed by how convincing vr arms in like vrchat were
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM
Yeah I reckon you can also just disable the arm body group
Have floating hands
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM
vrchat uses some proprietary asset store thing tho
finalik
and idk what it does differently to make things feel convincing
i would sort of hope that with the right restrictions on each bone it wouldn't feel too weird?
i'm hopeful that fbt can be functional too
i guess we'll see
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walllable 04-Aug-21 05:12 PM
It's funny seeing his hand open and close as he walks
Seeing them relatively up close like that though, they did a good job, it looks really nice
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:15 PM
But yeah, all I can do is set the hands/IK to the controllers once the position stuff is in
No idea how to remove all animation from the hands so I can override the rotation
The animgraph is very complex and mostly useless for VR from what I can see
Works ok from the pelvis down but anything upwards probably needs to be mostly re-done
Just floating hands looks ok https://puu.sh/I1wfP/9dc39bc45a.mp4
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:22 PM
where is the ik target in these videos
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:22 PM
100 units from eyepos, forward
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:22 PM
ah
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:23 PM
Figured it was enough to check I could reliably set it to something
Will be more clear how off it is with controller position in VR (edited)
Might make a proof of concept animgraph later that doesn't apply any animation on anything except for the fingers for finger tracking (edited)
In cases like this it sucks that the animgraph is assigned in modeldoc instead of dynamically though
Would be nicer if I could just drop in a VR-focused animgraph without needing to copy the terry model and assign a different animgraph
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Would be nicer if I could just drop in a VR-focused animgraph without needing to copy the terry model and assign a different animgraph
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Gvarados 04-Aug-21 05:27 PM
this
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:27 PM
Even as just like an optional override thing you can do in script
So nothing breaks but you can just override animgraphs
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UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:28 PM
you should drop that in #feature-requests cause being able to throw a diff anim graph at stuff might be nice
no clue if that's doable but you know whatever
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walllable 04-Aug-21 05:28 PM
Or make an issue for it so that it doesn't get buried and lost
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ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:28 PM
Mhm same, with how shit has to recompile idk
I reckon they probably read through feature-requests pretty closely
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 03:18 AM
I realize I never explained why you were seeing this controller, Touch controllers never changed their available inputs (for the most part) so Valve just made them all use the same binding set across Rift CV1, Rift S, Quest 1 and Quest 2. One exception is Rift S and Quest 1 got rid of the capacitive thumb rest, which they re-added to Quest 2. Barely used for anything beside hand animation though.
ℹ️ 1
That lower-ring picture is just the first gen touch controller
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 06:10 AM
Tbh given how rare CV1 rift users are nowadays I'm not sure why they haven't updated it to be one of the upper ring ones
I guess it gives you a clear view of the buttons compared to those other models
@garry does HL:A actually use "FingerCurlThumb" and shit?
When Valve swapped to Knuckles EV2 they updated the API to have the finger curls be part of the skeleton API, and told devs to stop using curls like that because it was Knuckles EV1.3 shit, I never checked out the actions in alyx before but the curls are all there as actions, which is redundant
Interesting to see they never cleaned up their actions list
But maybe they had a good reason for it
Climbey used to have finger curl actions, but I deleted all of em and swapped over to using the skeleton api with no issues
EV1.3 had all the finger curls exposed as separate things you could bind to in the binding overlay, but with EV2+ they got rid of all that so you technically can't bind them but if I recall correctly the curl binds are still possible if you manually write them into your json
Just dunno if they actually function on non-index controllers if you're using them that way instead of the skeletal api way
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garry 05-Aug-21 07:00 AM
they use the skeleton stuff for sure
so maybe that's all just left in stuff
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:05 AM
Yeah must be (edited)
@MaxLebled Hey max, happen to know how to mask off Terry's upper body to not have any animation? I'm having some trouble figuring out bone masks
Probably just don't understand how they work properly
I know there's an "only upper body" bone mask but idk if I need the inverse of that to achieve this
Idea is to rip all the upper body animation out, then have it do arm IK based on VR controllers
After I figure that out I can start adding some of the smoothed upper body rotation/position stuff in again based on the VR headset pose
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MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 07:09 AM
yeah, that was my idea too
i'll add that now
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:10 AM
Also no clue how to make it angle the hands to whatever a theoretical controller angle would have, seem to just be stuck in one direction after I override the IK target
But again, probably just because of my lack of understanding of the animation graph editor πŸ˜…
Wasn't sure if you were wanting to have the VR compatible animations as part of the same animation graph given its already massive scope
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garry 05-Aug-21 07:14 AM
with the vr controllers do you think I should bind things literally, like Right Controller Trigger, Right Controller Grip, Right Controller Stick
rather than Right Shoot, Right Hold
the argument against being literal is if the control methods change dramatically
maybe people using actual hand tracking
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:15 AM
technically Valve recommends actions be named as actions, so the latter, but with how standardized VR controllers are getting the literal version makes more sense in my mind these days
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garry 05-Aug-21 07:16 AM
yeah, we're making a decision for multiple games, so we can't be like Right Shoot because it might not be shoot
thumbs_up 1
(although that doesn't stop us with Attack etc for mouse button)
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:16 AM
The legacy input system actually had all the button names and then the action based system was supposed to get away from that but then devs start naming their actions button names anyway πŸ˜‚
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garry 05-Aug-21 07:16 AM
I think from a developer pov Right Trigger makes a ton more sense
any new input methods could bind to Right Trigger and it'll be all good
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:17 AM
Generally most controllers have button 1, button 2, joystick, joystick click, grip, trigger
Index and WMR has a secondary 2-axis input in the form of a touchpad
And vive wands only have a touchpad and a button 1
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garry 05-Aug-21 07:18 AM
this touch controller seems to have a touchpad
I'll get the obvious stuff binded first then we can work our way around
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:18 AM
Well I mean it has a "touchpad" but it's not a 2-axis pad it's just a binary on/off one
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garry 05-Aug-21 07:18 AM
wtf
rewakky
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:19 AM
Yeah
It's a thumb rest
idk why they put it back in
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garry 05-Aug-21 07:19 AM
I guess just to asses the hand pose better
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:19 AM
A very rare subset of apps will use that as a 3rd button but it's not tactile so it's easy to accidentally trigger
The lowest common denominator is vive wands because they have the lowest amount of buttons/input available (edited)
Trigger, grip, 2-axis touchpad and menu button
The menu button isn't a commonly available thing, basically only WMR controllers and Vive wands have it
Since the menu button on Touch is used to bring up the SteamVR overlay
Given Oculus' domination of the SteamVR headset list it's probably a relatively safe bet to go for the input set Touch controllers provide as the default, and then to figure out some touchpad zone based shit for vive wands to make it compatible with the amount of inputs though
Idk if you also want to give devs access to a secondary 2-axis input or not, but that's only relevant for Index controllers and WMR controllers
And on Index you can also have a secondary grip axis that's actuated by the pressure sensor in the grips there
But that'd literally only be relevant for index as no other controller has such a feature
Fun though, I guess. Can have special squeeze features in your gamemode if the user is on index
I noticed there's still a bunch of rendering bugs in VR btw, the debug graphics seem to render way off like when VR was first added in that stretched kind of way
Also, the SteamVR input system has functions to check if a specific action is bound at all, if you expose that somehow devs would be able to check if specific features are available on a controller or not and turn features on/off based on that. Could be good to get more use out of the secondary 2-axis input and the secondary grip axis
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:43 AM
Oh right very specifically the Vive Cosmos controllers have a bumper button above the trigger, but they removed this from the Vive Focus 3 controllers because no one was using it hah
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@MaxLebled Hey max, happen to know how to mask off Terry's upper body to not have any animation? I'm having some trouble figuring out bone masks
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MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:24 AM
done, b_vr animation controller input
it's... a start! as for handling controller input and doing arms on that, that's another can of worms πŸ™‚
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:26 AM
We can either set the IK target to the controller position or turn off all body groups except hands and set those bones to the controller positions and animate fingers from there
Would be nice to have a head bodygroup that doesn't leave a giant hole in the neck, maybe have it just be skin colored or slightly darkened
For first person chest
Perhaps one for legs too but that seems like it'd pop up less
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MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:27 AM
my best guess is that the modelspace IK bones (hand_*_IK_target) would be directly taken control of
by code. somehow.
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:28 AM
I tried that for some reason it doesn't let me
I'm assuming b_vr is a bool parameter?
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MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:29 AM
correct
i'll put in the hand IK stuff in now (just not the code input side πŸ˜› )
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:29 AM
Cool, this should work for that then https://puu.sh/I1FkI/9de3b24066.png
Hand position stuff we don't have access to yetttt but Garry got it working so he's probably working out all the buttons before comitting that
Cool to see "duck" is a float, when we get head position data I'll shove a value in there too
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MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:32 AM
yeah not sure yet how we'll do the pelvis stuff
VR is a big can of worms etc
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:32 AM
Yeahh it's why I wasn't sure if you were going to add all the VR related animation to the same animgraph
But I guess with b_vr that kind of confirms that's how it'll be
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MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:50 AM
ok, b_vr now sets the arms to follow the modelspace IK targets
the idea is that if you lose tracking, the code would stop overriding the IK bones, and could fall back onto the underlying animation as backup
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:53 AM
I'd test it but the build bot seems to not have done anything for the past hour :p
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Spiral 05-Aug-21 09:37 AM
Yes Garry we are hungry FEED US
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 10:02 AM
Seriously tho the build bot broke I think
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DEADMONSTOR 05-Aug-21 10:04 AM
@garry (pls ^)
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OBRISON 05-Aug-21 10:44 AM
update windows on build bot
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 11:07 AM
Setting b_vr to true doesn't seem to do anything to the animations, and I can't seem to override the IK target bone though I might need to put it in somewhere that isn't just simulate to override animation, not sure yet
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garry 05-Aug-21 11:27 AM
got some cleaning up to do but it works
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DEADMONSTOR 05-Aug-21 11:27 AM
LUL That is amazing
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Loxy 05-Aug-21 11:28 AM
that's great
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walllable 05-Aug-21 11:28 AM
Love the box hands lol
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garry 05-Aug-21 11:29 AM
DebugOverlay wasn't working in VR mode
I lost about 40 mins to that thinking the tracking was in the wrong place
I amde a ticket for @Sam
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 11:29 AM
It works but it's way off like the initial VR rendering was
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garry 05-Aug-21 11:30 AM
it's rendering on the HMD like there's one screen
so you only see it in one eye
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Willox 05-Aug-21 11:32 AM
same thing probably happens with RenderScene/SceneCapture stuff then?
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garry 05-Aug-21 11:33 AM
Ii'm not sure
Avatar garry
it's rendering on the HMD like there's one screen
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 11:34 AM
Not just that, it's not in the correct place either
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Umbra 05-Aug-21 11:38 AM
it looks jiggly
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conneath 05-Aug-21 11:51 AM
Garry how does it feel to have terry tower over you
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Shirk 05-Aug-21 11:52 AM
Garry is confirmed to be about 3.5 feet tall
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same thing probably happens with RenderScene/SceneCapture stuff then?
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Sam 05-Aug-21 11:52 AM
SceneCaptures are explicitly rendered with VR off, is there any use case where that would be appliable in VR?
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Willox 05-Aug-21 11:53 AM
no i'm just thinking about the fact that it's multiple scene renders ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 11:55 AM
VR stuff renders per eye so that's probably the issue
that or the view offset is fucky
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garry 05-Aug-21 12:06 PM
just hacking this together, no real physics interactions
@Laylad could do a better version using welds and stuff
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:07 PM
Love it
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garry 05-Aug-21 12:07 PM
that's all the code for that
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:07 PM
Are you going to be shipping a bunch of constraints and pickup points so people don't have to write the same code 100x
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garry 05-Aug-21 12:08 PM
I was just thinking that
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VR stuff renders per eye so that's probably the issue
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Sam 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM
We render it instanced at once homie
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM
they have per eye view and offsets tho, maybe they're fucked
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Sam 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM
The shader might not just be using instancing, I'll have a look later
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Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM
Are the sausage models placeholders
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM
πŸ‘
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matt 05-Aug-21 12:10 PM
2 sausages in that video :S
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Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:10 PM
Probably could make s&saber work finally
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garry 05-Aug-21 12:11 PM
there's a lot of stuff in vr that I skipped
like should we be smoothing the hold points
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:11 PM
I need to whip out my vive at some point and fuck around with stuff
It might be worth porting over some of alyx' movement options if possible and add some of those as input options for the tag system
Loads of people prefer shit like teleporting since locomotion can make a lot of people feel sick if they ain't use to it
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Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:17 PM
yes
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:17 PM
since alyx had that fleshed out pretty well, might be worth throwing it all in
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Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:17 PM
there should probably be a vr tab in the settings menu
there should probably be a vr tab in the settings menu
obviously not all gamemodes will be able to follow the settings 100%
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:19 PM
vr is a nightmare to get right because of the amount of different playstyles so having a lot of those built in and filters helps a lot
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Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:19 PM
yeah
even basic things like turning has a big impact
I need snap turn, I get sick from smooth turning
but I know a lot of people who get sick from snap turning instead
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ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:20 PM
^
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Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:21 PM
plus hand vs head vs waist direction for locomotion movement
plus hand vs head vs waist direction for locomotion movement
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Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:26 PM
Just don't let anyone make h3vr in s&box and we will be fine
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 12:27 PM
Head directed ftw
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Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:27 PM
hand direction makes me sick 🀒
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Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:27 PM
The only good way
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 12:28 PM
Compensating for head forward is way easier than hand forward, I don't understand why people like this shit
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Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:31 PM
I need to try waist some time
from what I've heard, once you go waist, you can't go back
requires an extra tracker of course
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Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:32 PM
You just hold the joystick backwars shm
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UselessGhost 05-Aug-21 01:47 PM
fucking hand directional is the default in so many games and it's horrible
head relative until i die motherfucker
and yeah, snap turning is a must, but these are things that should probably be handled at the gamemode level imo
though something in the settings menu to enable a convar somewhere would be nice
Avatar ShadowBrain
Head directed ftw
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rako 05-Aug-21 01:52 PM
fookin A
HMD direction vector for the win
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Goret 05-Aug-21 02:25 PM
hmd direction ftw indeed
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UselessGhost 05-Aug-21 02:29 PM
ah is the controller stuff not in the steam branch yet
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walllable 05-Aug-21 02:29 PM
Nope
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UselessGhost 05-Aug-21 02:30 PM
f
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walllable 05-Aug-21 02:30 PM
I assume garry's working on it still
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UselessGhost 05-Aug-21 02:30 PM
yeah probably
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:17 PM
Hopefully tomorrow 🀞
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:17 PM
🀞
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OBRISON 05-Aug-21 04:21 PM
will it be universal controller support or?
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:22 PM
SteamVR.
So yes
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OBRISON 05-Aug-21 04:22 PM
epic
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:22 PM
There might not be optimal binds for controllers that Garry doesn't have or doesn't have experience with but that's what community binds (or just suggesting popular binds to become default) is for (edited)
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:22 PM
Worst case if you have a super niche controller it'll require you to set up bindings, but you can even do that with like a dumb joycon setup
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:23 PM
I do wonder how the vive controller will be handled
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:23 PM
Poorly as it always will be because it's a dumb controller
Vive wands have been holding back VR bindings a bunch
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:24 PM
Lol yeah fair enough
I definitely preferred the wmr controllers over the Vive wands because even just adding a thin stick opened up bindings a whole lot more
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:24 PM
Just gonna assume you bind quadrants to buttons and can only use the 2-axis input in touch mode
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:25 PM
Since you didn't have to choose between making the touchpads do actions or movement/rotation
The thumbsticks could be for movement and the touchpads for other stuff
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:25 PM
Yup (edited)
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OBRISON 05-Aug-21 04:25 PM
only issue with wmr are its rings
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:26 PM
And it's also why I kind of wish the new wmr controllers didn't get rid of the touchpad
Especially since they aren't capacitive
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:26 PM
At least the new WMR controllers have more buttons on it
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:27 PM
It's A and B on both controllers I believe, but the same was able to be accomplished with the trackpad being divided into quadrants or something, along with the versatility of just touching the touchpad (VRC's finger gestures come to mind)
I actually don't know how VRChat handles finger gestures on the new wmr controllers
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:27 PM
Nope, G2 controllers have A/B/X/Y
Only index gets A/B/A/B
Which is more sane
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:28 PM
Ah okay, so ab on one controller and xy on the other?
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:28 PM
Yup
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walllable 05-Aug-21 04:28 PM
Ah
I feel like my point still stands though at least
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ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:28 PM
It sucks because it fucks with SteamVR's mirrored bindings ability
Have to manually set X/Y because it doesn't mirror to what you set A/B to
Naming is very important and having it be asymmetrical is shit (edited)
But yeah an extra touchpad gives you 4 clear quadrants you can use for button input
As opposed to 2 buttons
It's pretty nice
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Spiral 05-Aug-21 04:38 PM
cant wait to slap terry's ass in vr
its beveled cylindrical shape is irresistible
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Autism 05-Aug-21 04:56 PM
or dont
Avatar Autism
or dont
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Spiral 05-Aug-21 11:49 PM
I'm gonna do it even harder now
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:06 AM
getting somewhere now
you can see the client and server difference
part of the usercmd
gonna clean up and ship this after lunch, then will work on getting triggers and stuff in
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braxen 06-Aug-21 07:09 AM
hotdog hand world
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:09 AM
Should filtered input be the default and others be TransformRaw
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:10 AM
Hmmm what constitutes filtered? What does filtered do, like, smooth it out?
Also IsVive etc. seems like it might be nicer to have a direct string of the controller name or something instead and have gamemodes deal with any changes based on that?
Because you might have to end up adding a lot of booleans for all the possible controllers people can have, which will definitely not all fall in those categories
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:12 AM
already added that tho
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:12 AM
Vive Cosmos controllers have Rift's input set, so if that check is just for the word "vive" that'd be incorrectly reported
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:12 AM
I dunno what filtered means, it comes from Valve's internal code
actually looking at the code it does fuck all
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:14 AM
That sounds about right
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:14 AM
it's copied straight from the original
maybe they were doing manual filtering at some point
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:14 AM
Yeah I'm sure, Valve probably left a lot of shit in that ended up not actually being used
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:14 AM
and now it's part of the internals
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:15 AM
I've never seen filtered in the Unity plugin so I was confused
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:15 AM
they're still sending all the filtered values over usercmd though
guess it doesn't matter since alyx is singleplayer
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:16 AM
I'm not even familiar with wtf usercmd is
I guess multiplayer?
stuff
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:17 AM
yeah it encodes all the button presses etc into a command and sends it to the server
the client prediction runs the game logic using that command
and the server runs the command on the server
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:17 AM
Ahh, huh, interesting, I guess they wrote that before deciding HL:A was not going to have multiplayer?
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:18 AM
no it has to run like that
the engine is all multiplayer whether you like it or not
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:18 AM
So Source 2 is always multiplayer
Neat
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:18 AM
client and server is separate
been like that since hl1
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:18 AM
Yeah I never went more than surface level with any source engine stuff
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:19 AM
it's good in a way but it leads to some crazy stuff
like when you smash glass in alyx
all the shards have to be serverside because you need to be able to pick them up
so even though it's a procedural model it has to network what it looks like etc to the client
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:19 AM
Funky
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:20 AM
which is a lot of hoops to jump through, in c++, when making a singleplayer game
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Ryhon 06-Aug-21 07:21 AM
Does it mean it's using twice the memory it should even though it's singleplayer? (edited)
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:22 AM
kind of, there's 2 entities for everything
but obviously textures are only clientside, models are shared etc
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:23 AM
I guess specifically for S&Box it's a good thing they stuck to that for HLA despite only using it for singleplayer, though I guess they did use Source 2 for DOTA too
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:23 AM
they're always gonna do it this way, even if they know it's gonna be purely single player
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:23 AM
Because it makes the option to go for multiplayer a lot less of a hassle?
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:24 AM
yeah, and code reuse
everything already works that way
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:24 AM
Or because re-architecting the engine to be singleplayer takes too much time
Yeah
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:24 AM
just working out what here is useful
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:25 AM
Explains why people were able to add basic multiplayer shit to HL:A pretty quickly
What's throw velocity vs velocity?
I guess they have their own custom throwing velocity based one some multi-frame average or some shit
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:26 AM
from what I can see when you loose grip it sets throwvelocity with some custom processing on it, otherwise it's 0
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:26 AM
I've always just kinda implemented throwing by setting it to the controller velocity on release, possibly setting it to hand velocity as it leaves your hand too
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:26 AM
looks like it looks at 10 frames history
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:27 AM
But I guess it's nice to have a thing that does a bunch of processing for you
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:27 AM
I'm guessing someone at Valve obsessed on this for 2 weeks
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:27 AM
I'm not sold on fingers being numbers instead of their actual names
What index is each finger
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:28 AM
that's just how I'm transporting from c++, I'm gonna neaten it up
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:28 AM
Cool, just trying to nitpick it a bit
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:29 AM
I'm just glad they didn't have number of fingers as an enum incase we evolved
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:29 AM
So you have grip and trigger analog values, is there going to be like a squeeze analog value too for Index's grip pressure sensor?
I guess this isn't the full input set anyway because it doesn't include the buttons and joystick/trackpad click (edited)
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:30 AM
probably
there is another struct for inputs
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:30 AM
Hmm so why is joystick, trigger and grip included in this one
Those I think should just be inputs yeah?
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:31 AM
I think this tracking object class was going away
these actions here are things we can add to the binding shit
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:32 AM
Hmmm but this is all still copied from HLA right (edited)
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:32 AM
yeah
I'm getting input then I'll genericify it all for us
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:32 AM
Cool
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:32 AM
alright I;'m gonna eat
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:33 AM
Am still gonna suggest using button 1 and button 2 for the face buttons btw, as opposed to ABXY or in Index's case ABAB
Unity's "XR" layer called them primaryButton and secondaryButton
Joystick being "primary2DAxis" and touchpad being "secondary2DAxis"
Their full spreadsheet, though honestly it doesn't even map everything
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garry 06-Aug-21 07:38 AM
that's a good call
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Also IsVive etc. seems like it might be nicer to have a direct string of the controller name or something instead and have gamemodes deal with any changes based on that?
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walllable 06-Aug-21 08:00 AM
I agree with this, I think it'd be better to just be able to ask "hey what headset is this?," get a string back, and be able to do what we want with that, especially as more third party headsets come out like the pimax and decagear, and the vive focus 3 as well that Brian mentioned
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:01 AM
Yeah idk what exactly those bools check to return true
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walllable 06-Aug-21 08:02 AM
Actually now that I'm reading the code more closely, is that what the Type string is for?
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:04 AM
It's not really that relevant to check what the headset name is, more so the controller name (edited)
Since SteamVR does let you interchange and cross-use lighthouse shit with everything else
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walllable 06-Aug-21 08:05 AM
Ah yeah, true
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:05 AM
But even beyond that it might be nicer to just check if specific buttons exist on the controller by checking if they're bound
And then using/not using them based on that
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walllable 06-Aug-21 08:06 AM
Do you check for headset in climbey for the multiplayer headset pins?
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:07 AM
Yup
But honestly it's a huge hassle as I had to make custom pin art for every headset, it's not a default feature unlike controller model rendering
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walllable 06-Aug-21 08:08 AM
Fair enough
I suppose it was a better looking idea back when it was just the vive and cv1
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garry 06-Aug-21 08:09 AM
you already have a string for finer details
.Type
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM
How do they check for rift/vive/index though? What makes them true/false?
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walllable 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM
Yeah I figured that's what that was for, good to have confirmation on that though for a peabrain like me
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garry 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM
but it's only gonna be stuff like this
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM
Is it just a type string check or is there more to it
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garry 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM
I dunno how they know for sure
it's an enum in the engine
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:11 AM
WindowsMR having 2 identical strings is probably the blocky WMR and the Odyssey+ smoothed WMR controller
Reverb is gonna be the Reverb G2 controller because the G1 had the original WMR ones
Pretty confusing list there
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garry 06-Aug-21 08:13 AM
one windowsmr is the samsung yeah
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:13 AM
Also "touch" and "rift" will be the same controllers
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garry 06-Aug-21 08:13 AM
it's the HMD model
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:13 AM
That.... seems incorrect
There's no HMD model with Touch in the name, and knuckles is explicitly the controllers
The headset's early prototype name was utah
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garry 06-Aug-21 08:14 AM
well I dunno I'm following suit from the engine
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:14 AM
I dunno either, that just looks like a weird mix of HMD and controller names (edited)
Knuckles EV1 is also pointless to add because its SteamVR drivers are broken and unusable, I have a box of those sitting in a display case because they're useless
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garry 06-Aug-21 08:15 AM
I didn't add it, it's what their api responds with
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:16 AM
Sounds like Valve needs to fix some shit
Avatar garry
I'm guessing someone at Valve obsessed on this for 2 weeks
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walllable 06-Aug-21 08:18 AM
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case, I remember there being something in Alyx's developer commentary about doing some frame averaging stuff and sampling from some part in the controller that updates more than once per frame to get data for throwing stuff
Seemed to work out pretty well in the end, because throwing feels really good in Alyx
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:19 AM
If I make any throwing shit I'll probably end up tweaking my own implementation of it
But it's nice to have as a fallback if I can't figure it out
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walllable 06-Aug-21 08:20 AM
Definitely
Especially when it's something that seems as robust and nice-feeling as Alyx's implementation
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:36 AM
@garry you should be able to use the rendermodel API to grab the "modelnumber" string, which is actually the model name
That one
Tracking system name and render model name are maybe less relevant
Any Unity game that does controller-specific shit uses that property string to differentiate controllers
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garry 06-Aug-21 08:46 AM
head/hand tracking should be with you in 5 mins
🙏 1
gonna find out why my lawnmower stopped mowing then will add buttons
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:47 AM
Once you've got buttons I'll get to work on setting up a bunch of bindings
I'm not gonna test all of em but I've got support for all the major things in Climbey so I can just reference that json to write some for S&Box
The Vive Cosmos and therefore Focus 3 can actually 1:1 use identical bindings as Touch controllers, but they still need their own separate json πŸ˜‚
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Erin 06-Aug-21 08:54 AM
This issue https://github.com/Facepunch/sbox-issues/issues/605 about WorldPanels not rendering in VR, is this just specific to VR? I know somebody had issues with them rendering in non vr last night, I can't seem to get them to render either, but then again I might be doing something wrong, but the one last night was working before then after an update it stopped working
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:57 AM
Btw @garry how does one override animated bone positions? Using SetBoneTransform in Simulate doesn't seem to do it
I figure it's because the animation is updated after simulate or something but I'm not sure
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garry 06-Aug-21 09:08 AM
there's code for that in engine, I'm gonna expose them
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:08 AM
For overriding bone positions?
Since b_vr makes the hands use those IK targets
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garry 06-Aug-21 09:11 AM
I dunno if that's the right way to do that
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ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:11 AM
I'm just trying to get basic arm IK working without adjusting the animgraph myself
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garry 06-Aug-21 09:12 AM
I think IK_targets are anim params
I haven't messed with it, so I need to look into it further